tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6429311486394377221.post5464340796815691099..comments2024-01-25T19:59:19.744-05:00Comments on COPA Flight 8 Ottawa: Uncontrolled Airport arrival - Joining the circuit...Michael Shawhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17881160865679740901noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6429311486394377221.post-80340388384306276302012-12-10T20:49:39.165-05:002012-12-10T20:49:39.165-05:00I made similar comments to TC CAIRS suggesting tha...I made similar comments to TC CAIRS suggesting that they amend the entry in the AIM. Below is their response.<br /><br />Dear Mr. Shaw:<br /><br />First of all, I would like to apologize for the delay in responding to you, but rest assured that your concerns were being seriously looked at and were discussed extensively here in the Department. As you are aware, those concerns, specifically circuit joining procedures described in the TC AIM, were entered into the Civil Aviation Issues Reporting System (CAIRS) and were assigned file number QD-3412. As a result of my review of the file I would like to take this opportunity to provide you with the following information:<br /><br /><br />The CARs and the AIM, while intending in the most part to say the same thing, do in fact differ now and then, but only in interpretation. The difference occurs because the people who write the AIM are, with good and sound intention, trying to make what the CARs decree as fact and law into a document that is easy to read and understand by aviation stakeholders, especially pilots. Unfortunately, sometimes that interpretation changes what the original intent was. One should always remember that the CARs are “Regulations” and the AIM a “guide”, with portions, where the CARs are referenced, a regulation. Any time the exact wording from the CARs is changed, no matter how small or subtle the change is, it does not then truly reflect the CARs.<br /><br /><br />As a result of your concerns, please be assured that we will undertake to rewrite “TP14371 http TC AIM RAC sub 4.0 Airport Operations” to express the intent of CARs Part VI, Subpart 2 Operating and Flight Rules, Division V - Operations at or in the Vicinity of an Aerodrome.<br /><br /> <br /><br />I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for sharing your views, as all comments we receive are appreciated.<br /><br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br />Ron Carter<br />Chief of Standards / Chef des normes<br />Aerodromes and Air Navigation / Aérodromes et navigation aérienne Telephone / téléphone: (613) 998-9855 Facsimile / télécopieur: (613) 954-1602 TTY / ATS (613) 990-4500 ron.carter@tc.gc.ca Transport Canada | Place de Ville (AARTA), Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0N8 Transports Canada | Place de Ville (AARTA) Ottawa (Ontario) K1A 0N8 Government of Canada | Gouvernement du CanadaMichael Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17881160865679740901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6429311486394377221.post-91493928050161335612010-02-20T16:57:18.005-05:002010-02-20T16:57:18.005-05:00Nice dispatch and this post helped me alot in my c...Nice dispatch and this post helped me alot in my college assignement. Thank you on your information.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6429311486394377221.post-2030777424679588802010-01-21T03:20:08.303-05:002010-01-21T03:20:08.303-05:00Easily I agree but I dream the post should have mo...Easily I agree but I dream the post should have more info then it has.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6429311486394377221.post-18255977094274622382010-01-17T15:26:38.165-05:002010-01-17T15:26:38.165-05:00Good dispatch and this mail helped me alot in my c...Good dispatch and this mail helped me alot in my college assignement. Gratefulness you as your information.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6429311486394377221.post-83811268794819156312009-11-10T09:19:51.491-05:002009-11-10T09:19:51.491-05:00Mike Shaw has taken his disagreement with what the...Mike Shaw has taken his disagreement with what the AIM says on this issue one step higher and has a letter on the subject printed in <a href="http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/publications/tp185/4-09/letter.htm" rel="nofollow">ASL 4/2009</a>.<br /><br />It looks like he has ASL editor Paul Marquis' attention on the subject, as Marquis replied: "Thank you for writing to us. Your comments are appreciated and will be considered in an upcoming revision of the TC AIM. —Ed."Adam Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02524937335927976607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6429311486394377221.post-68714742220337563782008-03-17T06:57:00.000-04:002008-03-17T06:57:00.000-04:00Hi Mike:You are quite right here. The AIM and its ...Hi Mike:<BR/><BR/>You are quite right here. The AIM and its predecessor the TC AIP contains a lot of personal opinion using words like "should" and "shall" about joining and flying in the circuit at uncontrolled aerodromes that makes it sound like it is quoting regulations.<BR/><BR/>The problem, as you have quite correctly pointed out, is that the CARs do not say agree with the AIM. <BR/><BR/>The CARS have very little to say about circuits at uncontrolled aerodromes at all. Everything that there is written about operations are uncontrolled aerodromes is in CAR 602.96 and it doesn't say much.<BR/><BR/>For instance the AIM says circuits shall normally be 1000 feet AAE. The CARs don't mention circuit height anywhere, or even say what a circuit is. <BR/><BR/>I have seen airport operators ask to TC for an exemption to allow ultralights to fly a 500 foot circuit and had TC tell them that they can't!! My response was "exemption to what?"; "denied on the basis of what?" and "if you just did it what reg would you be breaking?"<BR/><BR/>You can't be violated for breaking the "rules" laid out in the AIM.<BR/><BR/>There is no reg on how to join a circuit or how not to. There is also no prohibition on joining downwind from a 45 degree leg.<BR/><BR/>I have long thought that the AIM section on aerodrome operations should be scrapped and a new one written that conforms to the CARs, instead of giving what the author thinks is "useful advice" masquerading in the language of regulations.Adam Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02524937335927976607noreply@blogger.com